Jack Bech Still Not Signed [Signed on 7/17 pg 8]

[Opoponax50]

From what I heard, because the Texans gave their 2nd round WR a guaranteed contract, Bech is holding out for that.

Mandatory OTAs are next week and it doesn't appear that we're making any headway with Bech. It's easy to say just sign him and get him onboard, but it sets a shitty precedent wherein 2nd rounders at any position are going to want guaranteed contracts, which means that even if they completely bust, we're stuck with the cap hit.

I absolutely believe that players need to make as much $ as possible, but 2nd round players still have a lot to prove, and Bech is no different. The longer this holdout goes on though, the worse his bargaining position gets. It also doesn't endear him to the coaching staff and other players.

As the general rule stands right now, high second round picks usually get paid around $10,000,000, so if the guy shows promise in the first couple of years, but then shits the bed, he'll still most likely get a chance to finish out his contract, which would net him around $5-6 million.

I don't want to sour on the guy just yet, but this situation certainly isn't helping.

[srv5490]

(Not sure where you are going with me benefitting more than “most”.) I suppose I have less money than some in here and I suppose I have more than some. Again not sure where you’re going with that part

Not really responding to the first part just because I don't totally disagree. My view on unions is totally situational. But you have a bit of penchant of throwing out some "bombs" occasionally, and I have a penchant for responding likewise - then we settle in to a good discussion and I enjoy that.

As far as where I was going with the "you more than most", here's what I meant:

- First of all, the "I don't know for sure" part of my post, I don't know for sure if you were an EMT in public or private employ, which would make a huge difference. So, my statement only applies if you were part of one of the public firefighters unions.

- Part of the "more than most" is that I would argue that the California firefighters unions are stronger than you believe. IMHO, it's the strongest of the state/local public service unions. Sure, you can't really strike because of the consequences, but that is also part of the bargaining power. Just look at the salary and benefit differences between public and private EMT jobs, and even the non-unionized private EMTs get some benefits from the standards that the public unions set. Same thing for my current profession (teaching). I am part of that union and pay my dues, but couldn't give a shit about anything and have never attended a meeting or even voted on an issue. My lack of interest, however, is simply because teaching is something of a retirement hobby for me and while I'm not rich, I don't need to worry much about money.

- The larger part of the "more than most" is the fact you have told us that you left the profession early due to an injury and have received workman's comp, or something similar. To be clear, I am absolutely not casting any aspersions on that, my point is that these programs would never had existed if it weren't for unions. And while I don't know the legality of who is eligible for these claims (union vs non-union) I can say with a fairly high degree of confidence that unionized firefighters have some of the highest rates of claim approval (for otherwise similar claims) and receive some of the most generous compensation. I have been told that by family and friends in firefighter unions, and family and friends on the medical side.

You and I have benefited financially much more than we have paid in our union dues. We could easily argue that our professions "deserve" better compensation, but it would certainly be much worse without our unions.

[Opoponax50]

And he is not going to make 10M on his rookie deal. And we should be pulling for these guys to get as much as they can. Always side with the talent whenever you can. Why would he settle for anything less than the most he can using "he will be set up for life regardless." I get it, they are making a load of cash playing a game for part of the year. But that is the point, they have a talent we can only dream of having. And yes, he has not missed a thing as of yet. Bitch when he misses camp or preseason games, until then, root for him to max out his deal.

I'm all for players getting as much as they can too. The vast majority of NFL careers are short, so get it while you can.

However, when we're talking about a high second rounder, the guy is very likely to make it through his first contract due to the investment the team has in him. Even if he gets dumped after his second year, some other team will pick him up. Look at most of the first round losers we've had that other teams signed.

Sheer effort and dedication will get Bech through his first contract. Therefore, he'll get $10,000,000, which after taxes would net him somewhere around $5-6 million. And that ain't bad.

Also, players can purchase all kinds of insurance in the event of injury. They're stupid if they don't. It won't make up for the entirety of their deal, but it can significantly mitigate it. Part of a deal could include the team paying for a player's insurance. This shouldn't be a game of hardball. Despite what a lot of people think, hardball is a loser's approach to negotiations and only works in TV and movies.

Finally, for those saying he hasn't missed anything, that's just plain wrong. He missed OTAs and minicamp, where the offense is installed, which means he doesn't have access to the playbook. If he signs today, he'll be going in cold tomorrow, so yes, the guy is significantly behind.

[Attyla]

Well, let's break it down
The slot where he gets picked dictates his pay and he will get in the range of 7M for his rookie deal.
The players can get insurance but there are caps to that
He did not miss rookie camp and he was at OTAs and he had some impressive moments by all accounts
And finally, there are no guarantees that if he fails as a Raider that some other team will pick him up. Zero.

Beck and the rest of the second rounders are making a stand I have long advocated for. Only the NFL signs players to contracts that the team does not have to honor. It is time to make the paper binding. If you say you are going to pay a guy 7M then that is what he should get. I look at the big time players out there with contract that are a staggering 200M+ with everyone knowing they are never going to see that money. If we make the entirety of the deal guaranteed everyone is happy, well except for the money grubbing owners. Have your injury clauses and such but make the money the players unless the player walks on the deal.

[Xramfan]

Not really responding to the first part just because I don't totally disagree. My view on unions is totally situational. But you have a bit of penchant of throwing out some "bombs" occasionally, and I have a penchant for responding likewise - then we settle in to a good discussion and I enjoy that.

Fair enough on my posting style. I guess I do lob grenades from time to time but as I get older I try to keep it civil and keep things light. So as to not kidnap the thread, I'll save further responses on unions and such to PM. Its all good

[chucker]

The #43 pick agreed to a deal without full guarantees. That likely will start a trend of other picks signing, especially later picks like Bech, who was drafted at 58.

[Attyla]

One caved, the rest will follow. Although from the looks of the contract he mostly did not cave.

[RickRyb]

One caved, the rest will follow. Although from the looks of the contract he mostly did not cave.

Evaluating and accepting a situation is not always "caving".

[Rabidraider]

The #43 pick agreed to a deal without full guarantees. That likely will start a trend of other picks signing, especially later picks like Bech, who was drafted at 58.

It's about 88% fully guaranteed. Teams should just find a percentage everyone can live with and move forward. Say 85% fully guaranteed and some clause if the player is still active after year 2 then the rest becomes fully vested.

[srv5490]

One caved, the rest will follow. Although from the looks of the contract he mostly did not cave.

Yeah, assuming Chucker's 75% guaranteed for previous 2nd rounders is correct, both sides "caved" equally - this contract is 87.4% guaranteed.

[raiderboyron]

Read Bears#56 & Ravens #59 have signed. Bech @58 should be real close to final by now.

[Attyla]

Evaluating and accepting a situation is not always "caving".

He got less than he wanted. To me he caved a bit, solidarity only works if everyone stays the course. He veered

[srv5490]

He got less than he wanted. To me he caved a bit, solidarity only works if everyone stays the course. He veered

Not sure I'd put it like that, I think this came more from the agents than the players. I'm guessing that once the 100% guarantee came in, the rest of the agents didn't want to look weak. Not so much for their return on that particular contract, but with regard to attracting future clients. I think a lot of them probably just wanted to find a way to get through this and not look bad.

[Attyla]

Not sure I'd put it like that, I think this came more from the agents than the players. I'm guessing that once the 100% guarantee came in, the rest of the agents didn't want to look weak. Not so much for their return on that particular contract, but with regard to attracting future clients. I think a lot of them probably just wanted to find a way to get through this and not look bad.

agents do get some guidance from their client and also from the players association. I am sure the PA wanted to get the second rounders fully guaranteed deals and were part of the driving force behind this. Players want their money, agents want to look strong for their clients but the PA wants to win.

But in any case, Bech should be signed soon now that the market has been set

[Grumpy13]

Saw on another site Bech signed as per yahoo sports. $7.56 mil. $2.14 signing bonus. If wrong don’t shoot the messenger.

[srv5490]

Saw on another site Bech signed as per yahoo sports. $7.56 mil. $2.14 signing bonus. If wrong don’t shoot the messenger.

They're probably referring to the article I'll link below, but it's from May 9th, so probably not accurate. The best I can tell from what I've seen is that they've had a contract structure in place, but are holding off on guarantees.

https://sports.yahoo.com/article/raider ... 44059.html